Skarm
Elite Trainer
Posts: 481
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Post by Skarm on Jul 16, 2014 13:48:00 GMT -5
I personally fail to see the problem if people clone,cheating legally, obtaining with no effort your pokemon, value can go down but who the heck cares? If you're not a casual player this should not affect you in the least, if you are a competitive player stay competitive, to most trainers(not casuals)Pokemon are simply tools of battling it's why most of us use showdown or PO, cause there we can get our tools to do what we like the most, it's why most of us skip the cartridge games after a year and go back to showdown where our tools are more customizable. Proof; look through your cartridge box, see how many of your pokemon are basic smogon set, about 70% now look through showdown, halve are things you wanted to try out and you could because the tools are more accessible there without the need to waste time. Collectors and breeders care. (And you can be either casual or competitive while being a collector and/or a breeder at the same time.) This is the same reason no country with a paper currency lets people counterfeit. If they did the value of the currency would plummet (inflation) which means the same amount of money can end up only being able to buy 10% or even 1% of what it used to. Even though the counterfeiter only padded his own wallet with the fake money, he does affect me because his counterfeiting affects the value of the money in my wallet.
Same thing here. The more someone else mass-produces rare or hard to obtain things through cloning or hacking, the less someone else will be willing to trade me for my legitimate ones. So just like with the money, the cloner has affected me indirectly because he has affected what I can get in a trade for my pokemon.Now, you might say that people are cloning everything, so it doesn't matter because everything else goes down in value too so exchange rates stay the same. But that's not actually true, at least for the people who don't cheat either on principle or because they don't have the money to spend on cheating devices. For people like that, we have to work much harder to get the same thing that others can get in much less time. If I can make something in six hours that it takes a cheater fifteen minutes to do, then he has made my time 24x less valuable, because what I can do in six hours, he can do illegitimately in 1/24 the time. And yes, Showdown does exist, but in my mind that just means there's even less of an excuse to cheat. I still fail to see the problem here. It all comes down to sentimental value. YOU bred your poke YOU raised it YOU ev trained it YOU used it for battles, YOU should be proud of YOUR pokemon that YOU bred. WHy care if other got their illegally YOU know YOU did the correct thing and did it the games way and took your time and do it, be proud that YOU aren't like the others that A) don't have enough time B) just doesn't care C) just like to cheat. Be proud that you are doing things right and that the pokemon you obtained were earned, fought four, brings more spark when you win with them. We usually only see this in games, ''real live can stay out of this'', many will say. But in reality real life has lot to do with games, real people made them afterall which is why I see why you decided to compare the real world. what I mentioned kinda does count in real life. Be proud YOU work to get money, and don't steal or do drugs to get money be proud YOU are a human that goes by the rules that were set by many other individual like you and who opt to do the right thing. True economic value can't get even close to the true sentimental value some things have, you may look at a homeless man and say that shirt is total crap but that shirt is the world for him cause he got some spare cash, collecting trash, cleaning cars, helping others to earn and to buy that shirt. But it's up to you, not to be jealous, not to envy, not to hate the ones that do unfair and that take less time to get higher and better. because deep down you know you are doing the right thing. Aks a drug dealer what his money means to him, he will say sometimes it's not worth it, he may feel guilt and that his life is in danger, they may even wish what they did was legal so it wouldn't feel guilty or bad. It's why cheating has never affected me because I am proud that I spent time, have fun, doing and earning the god way.thus making the final product much, much more valuable than anyone can imagine.
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Post by soulred12 on Jul 16, 2014 16:14:54 GMT -5
I still fail to see the problem here. It all comes down to sentimental value. YOU bred your poke YOU raised it YOU ev trained it YOU used it for battles, YOU should be proud of YOUR pokemon that YOU bred. WHy care if other got their illegally YOU know YOU did the correct thing and did it the games way and took your time and do it, be proud that YOU aren't like the others that A) don't have enough time B) just doesn't care C) just like to cheat. Be proud that you are doing things right and that the pokemon you obtained were earned, fought four, brings more spark when you win with them. We usually only see this in games, ''real live can stay out of this'', many will say. But in reality real life has lot to do with games, real people made them afterall which is why I see why you decided to compare the real world. what I mentioned kinda does count in real life. Be proud YOU work to get money, and don't steal or do drugs to get money be proud YOU are a human that goes by the rules that were set by many other individual like you and who opt to do the right thing. True economic value can't get even close to the true sentimental value some things have, you may look at a homeless man and say that shirt is total crap but that shirt is the world for him cause he got some spare cash, collecting trash, cleaning cars, helping others to earn and to buy that shirt. But it's up to you, not to be jealous, not to envy, not to hate the ones that do unfair and that take less time to get higher and better. because deep down you know you are doing the right thing. Aks a drug dealer what his money means to him, he will say sometimes it's not worth it, he may feel guilt and that his life is in danger, they may even wish what they did was legal so it wouldn't feel guilty or bad. It's why cheating has never affected me because I am proud that I spent time, have fun, doing and earning the god way.thus making the final product much, much more valuable than anyone can imagine. That's true, I can still be proud of knowing that I acquired my own things legitimately. But that's not really my point. Pokemon has its own entire mini-economy; just look at the wifi forums on Smogon, or all the other trade sections on all the other forums out there. A pokemon's value is important and significant, because just like anything, it determines what you can get for it in a trade. Another example: imagine if people could "clone" rare or expensive cars. I might be able to be proud that I got my rare car by legitimately buying it, but the fact that now everyone else has the car means I can't sell the car for nearly as much money. Perhaps I used to have $100,000 sitting in my garage, but now thanks to the car cloner I only have $15,000 because it's gone down so much in value. That would be a big deal to me even though the cloner hasn't done anything to me directly. I really don't care that people are taking shortcuts to get their pokemon. If they're cool with that then fine. But those people try to tell people like me to stfu by saying "it doesn't affect you so why do you care," when in reality it can affect me because of what it does to the market value of my legitimately obtained pokemon.
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Skarm
Elite Trainer
Posts: 481
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Post by Skarm on Jul 16, 2014 16:52:26 GMT -5
I still fail to see the problem here. It all comes down to sentimental value. YOU bred your poke YOU raised it YOU ev trained it YOU used it for battles, YOU should be proud of YOUR pokemon that YOU bred. WHy care if other got their illegally YOU know YOU did the correct thing and did it the games way and took your time and do it, be proud that YOU aren't like the others that A) don't have enough time B) just doesn't care C) just like to cheat. Be proud that you are doing things right and that the pokemon you obtained were earned, fought four, brings more spark when you win with them. We usually only see this in games, ''real live can stay out of this'', many will say. But in reality real life has lot to do with games, real people made them afterall which is why I see why you decided to compare the real world. what I mentioned kinda does count in real life. Be proud YOU work to get money, and don't steal or do drugs to get money be proud YOU are a human that goes by the rules that were set by many other individual like you and who opt to do the right thing. True economic value can't get even close to the true sentimental value some things have, you may look at a homeless man and say that shirt is total crap but that shirt is the world for him cause he got some spare cash, collecting trash, cleaning cars, helping others to earn and to buy that shirt. But it's up to you, not to be jealous, not to envy, not to hate the ones that do unfair and that take less time to get higher and better. because deep down you know you are doing the right thing. Aks a drug dealer what his money means to him, he will say sometimes it's not worth it, he may feel guilt and that his life is in danger, they may even wish what they did was legal so it wouldn't feel guilty or bad. It's why cheating has never affected me because I am proud that I spent time, have fun, doing and earning the god way.thus making the final product much, much more valuable than anyone can imagine. That's true, I can still be proud of knowing that I acquired my own things legitimately. But that's not really my point. Pokemon has its own entire mini-economy; just look at the wifi forums on Smogon, or all the other trade sections on all the other forums out there. A pokemon's value is important and significant, because just like anything, it determines what you can get for it in a trade. Another example: imagine if people could "clone" rare or expensive cars. I might be able to be proud that I got my rare car by legitimately buying it, but the fact that now everyone else has the car means I can't sell the car for nearly as much money. Perhaps I used to have $100,000 sitting in my garage, but now thanks to the car cloner I only have $15,000 because it's gone down so much in value. That would be a big deal to me even though the cloner hasn't done anything to me directly. I really don't care that people are taking shortcuts to get their pokemon. If they're cool with that then fine. But those people try to tell people like me to stfu by saying "it doesn't affect you so why do you care," when in reality it can affect me because of what it does to the market value of my legitimately obtained pokemon. It's why those places have rules. kalos born only, certain trainer id aren't allowed(usually the most known Cloners), etc. (I don't know the other rules) Those places make it a market where only legit product can go trough, but just like society you may find some scammer still going by as ''legal'' but if they get too greedy, get's caught, new name to put on the id list of not acceptable trainers. Like I got this Guy who though I was a cloner (cause my game don't save) so sometimes I see people on pss that deny my zards if I trade with them. my fault, I spammed Shiny zards on random trade. But I had right intentions, I wanted to be santa and gift megastones and some other items, I would also deny any rare stuff people would offer me and tell them my game don't save, your shiny/rare will be lost. making me somewhat suspicious which is why I stopped after 20 or so zards, that includes your zards and some other chaos members zard, but don't worry the rest is only owned by chaos members. :3 So you can keep the gen 3 starters, fun fact you are the only who got the hp ice sceptile so far i'm aware.
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Post by soulred12 on Jul 16, 2014 22:01:45 GMT -5
It's why those places have rules. kalos born only, certain trainer id aren't allowed(usually the most known Cloners), etc. (I don't know the other rules) Those places make it a market where only legit product can go trough, but just like society you may find some scammer still going by as ''legal'' but if they get too greedy, get's caught, new name to put on the id list of not acceptable trainers. Like I got this Guy who though I was a cloner (cause my game don't save) so sometimes I see people on pss that deny my zards if I trade with them. my fault, I spammed Shiny zards on random trade. But I had right intentions, I wanted to be santa and gift megastones and some other items, I would also deny any rare stuff people would offer me and tell them my game don't save, your shiny/rare will be lost. making me somewhat suspicious which is why I stopped after 20 or so zards, that includes your zards and some other chaos members zard, but don't worry the rest is only owned by chaos members. :3 So you can keep the gen 3 starters, fun fact you are the only who got the hp ice sceptile so far i'm aware. I don't really have an issue with people who make a couple clones for specific people or for friends, the effect of that is probably negligible. I'm more concerned about the people who do things like make ten boxes full of cloned event legendaries and distribute them to the world. I don't doubt even many people who do that have good intentions (like I know you did when distributing pokemon from your bugged game) but I also believe that they are mistaken if they think doing that (genning a dozen boxes of something that's meant to be rare) has zero effect on other people.
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Skarm
Elite Trainer
Posts: 481
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Post by Skarm on Jul 17, 2014 8:50:50 GMT -5
It's why those places have rules. kalos born only, certain trainer id aren't allowed(usually the most known Cloners), etc. (I don't know the other rules) Those places make it a market where only legit product can go trough, but just like society you may find some scammer still going by as ''legal'' but if they get too greedy, get's caught, new name to put on the id list of not acceptable trainers. Like I got this Guy who though I was a cloner (cause my game don't save) so sometimes I see people on pss that deny my zards if I trade with them. my fault, I spammed Shiny zards on random trade. But I had right intentions, I wanted to be santa and gift megastones and some other items, I would also deny any rare stuff people would offer me and tell them my game don't save, your shiny/rare will be lost. making me somewhat suspicious which is why I stopped after 20 or so zards, that includes your zards and some other chaos members zard, but don't worry the rest is only owned by chaos members. :3 So you can keep the gen 3 starters, fun fact you are the only who got the hp ice sceptile so far i'm aware. I don't really have an issue with people who make a couple clones for specific people or for friends, the effect of that is probably negligible. I'm more concerned about the people who do things like make ten boxes full of cloned event legendaries and distribute them to the world. I don't doubt even many people who do that have good intentions (like I know you did when distributing pokemon from your bugged game) but I also believe that they are mistaken if they think doing that (genning a dozen boxes of something that's meant to be rare) has zero effect on other people. I agree for many it's a problem but many started a community where if you're legal you're cool. It's why many want kalos born only blah blah blah. They know, cloners and what not are a problem so they try to stay away from them and make their pokemon valuable themselfs with other people who also don't like cheating. it's like a bottle cap collection club, many know bottle caps aren't that worth it and that rare ones are easy to get on e-bay so they make a club where many of the same interest see the caps as gold, regardless of what others think. Just like pokemon, you cheat, you suck. just say you clone on the wi-fi room and you will see how many will start eating you until you go away with your black market pokemons.
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