TheHunterDag
Moderator
Wha? There are JRPGS that AREN'T Shin Megami Tensei?!
Posts: 666
|
Post by TheHunterDag on Oct 31, 2012 17:35:59 GMT -5
I know a sprite series is often a way to show off cool sprites and battles and such, but I've always complained about the lack of substance/good content in terms of the story around everything. My problems with stories and the reason for my poor viewing experience can basically be summed up with this. tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AssPullMore specifically, most sprite series tend to be Deus Ex Machina up the ass... [glow=red,2,300] Browse through that website everyone; there's a lot of good info there![/glow] Basically, my standards are basically that the dialogue has to be taken seriously (a joke or a spasmic outburst from the characters every 30 seconds kills it pretty quickly...). Secondly, the constant Ass Pulls/Deus Ex Machina make me NEVER question the success of the ARMY of heroes that always seem to be present to kill one bad guy. Basically (again), I want a sprite series to make me care about what's going on and develop a story properly!!!! Constant action doesn't mean ship if I don't care about the events surrounding it. Which is why I can't stand when a series maker says, "The newest episode is epic!!!" and it's 20 minutes of battles and no substance.
|
|
|
Post by MarlinsAreEpic on Nov 13, 2012 2:09:44 GMT -5
Not too many spriters; both of our series will have that in common. Too many spriters dictate your series until it isnt even yours.
|
|
Flare
Ace Trainer
Posts: 186
|
Post by Flare on Oct 23, 2013 18:02:52 GMT -5
Ok, I'm going to lay down an outline for what needs to be done here:
1.) Balance (a.k.a The Zygarde Clause)- There needs to be a fluent progression with plot, as well as action to catch the viewer's eyes. Not everything is about flashy graphics and fight scenes to show off your animating ability. Of course, this doesn't mean omitting them completely is good either. If it's mostly exposition and rising action of plot, it won't seem interesting to the viewer at all, and they won't watch. Another thing with balance is the ratio of protagonists to antagonists. In most sprite series out there, there is a 20:1 ratio. This is NOT NEEDED, PEOPLE. The ratio in my series is a bit more reasonable- approximately 8:5. And yes, I do have flashier graphics, but most of my episodes now a days are text. The balance isn't really there, but there are some glimmers of hope.
2.) Good Story line- This is probably the one that gets people. Most spriter viewers I have seen don't even give two shits about plot. They just wanna see graphics. A sprite series isn't a battle, it's a movie. And movies are like books, only you can actually see what's going on. And most Fantasy/Sc-Fi/Action/Adventure books have a plot. It is needed, otherwise you can't call it a series. You might as well make sprite SHORTS, no plot involved, just random battles for the hell of it. A guideline for a plausible plot can be found in EVERY corner of internet's movie critiques/book reviews. You can find guides ANYWHERE.
3.) Motive Clause- As per usual with every sprite series around, the antagonist has to have a plausible motive. Some sprite series I have seen...cannot convey for crap. (If you want proof, most of Piflare's Epics can be seen breaking this badly.) The villain needs to have a distinct yet easy to read motive in the beginning and actions that appeal to the viewer- however this does NOT apply to the flashy graphics clause; it has to be seen on a deeper level.
4.) Deus Ex Machina Clause- Do I even have to explain this? This is the effect of lazy writing and just running out of ideas. It should NOT EXIST in anything unless we are directly referring to gods, since they can kinda do whatever they want...they're gods.
This should suffice as a proper basis for a sprite series.
|
|
TheHunterDag
Moderator
Wha? There are JRPGS that AREN'T Shin Megami Tensei?!
Posts: 666
|
Post by TheHunterDag on Oct 23, 2013 20:14:23 GMT -5
I got a few more points here, sorta bouncing off of Flare's post.
When you think about it, a sprite series almost functions as a kinetic novel (a visual novel where the reader has no input to the story progression). That being said, I feel that the Balance thing Flare was talking about needs a bit more added to it. It is possible to achieve such a balance without blatant use of action scenes. The term I'd use here would be called "Pacing." Essentially, constant action doesn't work, and constant exposition doesn't work either. Abrupt switches between the two can also be considered poor pacing. A sprite series maker, or any writer for that matter, should understand how to seamlessly flow from action to plot without the viewer becoming disengaged in the experience by an abrupt change in pace. Poor pacing will lead to the viewer shifting attention between two completely different aspects of your series, and neither will be able to achieve its full effect without the complement of the other. Going back to what I started to say about achieving balance without action. The concept of balance applies to how you choose to exploit the medium of a sprite series. If your series is going to be action heavy, that's fine. However, you'd need to properly pace your series to achieve the right level of balance. The same applies to a plot heavy series like mine. You'd have to find balance by using pacing in the dialogue. In this case, you'd have to apply pacing to the mood of the dialogue the implementation of plot into it. The dialogue should always be interesting - this is what would keep a viewer satisfied if there's little to no action - but it shouldn't keep the same mood constantly. You have to pace it by tastefully adding in bits of dialogue that contrast the mood. For example, consider in my series the moments where Dag argues with Lyrynn, or the scenes between Marela and Kiro. The series generally had a dark, and hopeless mood to it, but moments like that temporarily remind viewers that there's other things happening other than an antagonist threatening the world. This avoids having viewers feel like they're being beaten over the head with the plot (essentially, one has to tastefully merge in subplots). Also, it's generally recommended to avoid having huge infodumps of exposition (I'll admit, The Hunter did have some of that). Action can be achieved through non-action ways, but in the end, how you go about action doesn't matter, it's how you pace the series.
A side note about Flare's "Motive Clause." Villains have a motive other than being evil for the sake of being evil is a must if you're trying to make something that can be taken seriously by anyone older than 10. It can even be something as simple as getting revenge, or being mentally unstable (but you should probably tread lightly on that one, since it can be misinterpreted as just being evil for the sake of evil). The point is, MOTIVES ARE REALLY FUCKING IMPORTANT. They make everything much more interesting and they help viewers by serving as more than the act of cathartically watching someone they were simply told is evil get killed (or beaten many times). However, there is an exception to this motive rule. If the lack of motive itself is a plot point, then it's okay. If the viewers and the protagonists are left wondering what the villain's motive is, half of the interest comes from trying to figure it out.
Another interesting side note. About the whole Deus Ex Machina thing, a somewhat recently read something where the plot (if you strip it down to it's barest form), was to create conditions for a Deus Ex Machina to happen. Very hard to pull off, but it works well if you can do it.
|
|
|
Post by Corporal Levi on Oct 23, 2013 21:41:17 GMT -5
I'm not very familiar with sprite series, but I would like to point out that in other mediums, breaking Flare's rules badly enough can achieve a comedic effect. A good example of this would be Dünyayı Kurtaran Adam, sometimes known as Turkish Star Wars. The movie simply does not have a plot, and as such, the story is incoherent, leaving the villain with no motive whatsoever. From what I understand of the ending, Murat ends the main villain (who has until this point been portrayed as a wizard who is able to pose as a significant threat to an entire planet) with two karate chops.
I'm not sure if labelling this as a spoiler is necessary because I find it difficult to imagine how one could spoil a story without a storyline. Does this apply to sprite series as well?
|
|
TheHunterDag
Moderator
Wha? There are JRPGS that AREN'T Shin Megami Tensei?!
Posts: 666
|
Post by TheHunterDag on Oct 23, 2013 21:59:44 GMT -5
I think breaking those rules should only be allowed if it's done ironically, no matter what the medium is. If you're intentionally trying to make something comically unstructured or ridiculous, it should be fine. The problem comes when breaking of those rules ends up replacing actual writing as opposed to intentionally being the writing (as you seem to be suggesting). The problem with a lot of sprite series is that the person making it often ends up breaking those rules while thinking it's good writing (I'd give an example, but I don't wanna be that guy to call someone out). The other problem is that actual writing ends up taking back seat to putting in a sprite battle, which is kinda how we got into the topic of balance and pacing. Now, if you want an example of the a sprite series adhering to the standards we seem to be setting here, check out Flare's ongoing series "Fantasy" and also (as much as I hate advertising myself) my finished series "The Hunter" in the this section of the board. I won't say either of ours is perfect, but it's a step in the right direction we want the community of series makers heading and worth checking out regardless of your familiarity with the medium.
|
|
|
Post by endersayberx on Mar 5, 2014 23:11:40 GMT -5
While I do agree with multiple different posts from this I do think that yes a Zygrade Claus should at least be thought of because having an army of 30 sprites/spriters losing to 1 villian is kind of redundent. Flashy effects yes are necesary but pure battles aren't really a good idea HOWEVER i do think that sometimes just having a random battle just a random non important henchman shows up is a good idea to kind of keep a viewers attention and prevent anyone from falling asleep. Explanation like in a book i do think should exist but makign an episode pure text doesn't really appeal maybe droping subtle explanations like one random sprite/spriter knows a small part and just the overall bit comes together progressively throught the entire story.
|
|