nipsgamingz
Youngster
http://www.youtube.com/user/NipsGamingz
Posts: 74 
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Post by nipsgamingz on Aug 5, 2013 0:16:27 GMT -5
 What's your guys opinion on this genie being moved up?? I personally think it wasn't truly necessary, however my knowledge of OU isn't the greatest so leave your opinions! Also, what do you think could possibly take its place?!? |
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zerocielX
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kawaii desu (◕‿◕✿)
Posts: 1,441
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Post by zerocielX on Aug 5, 2013 0:20:25 GMT -5
If i can be perfectly honest, its a bunch of bullshit. Sure he was a powerful threat, he wasn't over-centralizing, or game-breaking in any way. Versatility was not a grounds for banishing him to Ubers, since that seems to be the reason why he was suspected in the first place. The whole thing is stupid, since now I have to dismantle my sand team, which was doing really good for me >:[
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Post by Rychu725 on Aug 5, 2013 15:53:28 GMT -5
I agree with Zero. He was good, that is a fact. But he was not that overpowering. He had checks, he had to set up, and he does not need to be in Ubers!
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Post by soulred12 on Aug 6, 2013 23:04:46 GMT -5
The reason Lando was suspected out wasn't because it overcentralized the metagame, but even worse: overcentralizing didn't help. The reason is because it didn't have any real/reliable counters (that is, pokemon that can actually switch in first safely, and then KO it on the next turn before it KOs them), and if something doesn't have any counters--even if it has checks--then you usually have to give up a pokemon every time it comes in so you can get your check back in safely, just to scare it out. Add that to the fact that it's ground type, so it can't be scouted with volt switch.
Here's why there are no counters:
-Mamoswine dies to special Lando's Earth Power and Focus Blast, or physical Lando's Superpower.
-Donphan dies to special Lando's Earth Power (or is 2HKOd if sturdy is intact) and is 2HKOd by physical landorus's HP Ice, and can't OHKO with ice shard like Mamo could.
-Gliscor is slower and can't take HP Ice even at 0 SpAtk EVs, and is 2HKOd by Psychic.
-Bulky waters like Jellicent, Vaporeon, and Gastrodon only work if you get lucky enough to have maxed their defense in the type of attack (physical or special) that the Lando you encounter runs--although admittedly, they're probably the best option you have.
-Starmie is faster but it can't switch into Earth Power or Earthquake, especially if stealth rocks are up.
-Gengar hates Psychic and even Stone Edge after Stealth Rocks and can't OHKO before getting KOd himself.
-Blissey/Chansey dislike the physical set and unless they run ice beam which is rare, can't do anything back aside from toxic.
The only pokemon I can think of that has a shot against him is Latios, because he outspeeds and threatens with surf and draco. But even then, physical Landorus has U-Turn and after Stealth Rocks it can even OHKO.
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zerocielX
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Posts: 1,441
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Post by zerocielX on Aug 6, 2013 23:31:27 GMT -5
The reason Lando was suspected out wasn't because it overcentralized the metagame, but even worse: overcentralizing didn't help. The reason is because it didn't have any real/reliable counters (that is, pokemon that can actually switch in first safely, and then KO it on the next turn before it KOs them), and if something doesn't have any counters--even if it has checks--then you usually have to give up a pokemon every time it comes in so you can get your check back in safely, just to scare it out. Add that to the fact that it's ground type, so it can't be scouted with volt switch. Here's why there are no counters: -Mamoswine dies to special Lando's Earth Power and Focus Blast, or physical Lando's Superpower. -Donphan dies to special Lando's Earth Power (or is 2HKOd if sturdy is intact) and is 2HKOd by physical landorus's HP Ice, and can't OHKO with ice shard like Mamo could. -Gliscor is slower and can't take HP Ice even at 0 SpAtk EVs, and is 2HKOd by Psychic. -Bulky waters like Jellicent, Vaporeon, and Gastrodon only work if you get lucky enough to have maxed their defense in the type of attack (physical or special) that the Lando you encounter runs--although admittedly, they're probably the best option you have. -Starmie is faster but it can't switch into Earth Power or Earthquake, especially if stealth rocks are up. -Gengar hates Psychic and even Stone Edge after Stealth Rocks and can't OHKO before getting KOd himself. -Blissey/Chansey dislike the physical set and unless they run ice beam which is rare, can't do anything back aside from toxic. The only pokemon I can think of that has a shot against him is Latios, because he outspeeds and threatens with surf and draco. But even then, physical Landorus has U-Turn and after Stealth Rocks it can even OHKO. At last, some who knows what he's talking about  Although, I think the only Pokemon that really hard counter either Lando-I set would be Cresselia (outside of Sandstorm, of course) Immune to its main STAB, and with her incredible defenses, she can take U-Turns, Stone-Edges, HP Ice, and any other coverage move Lando may run. But of course, since she is sitting down in BL2, and Lando is almost always in the sand, that really limited her usage. |
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Post by soulred12 on Aug 6, 2013 23:38:19 GMT -5
Actually...coming to think of it, you're right. Cresselia is actually a bona-fide counter to both Landorus sets, although as you mention you don't see Cresselia much. But if we did see it more maybe Lando wouldn't have been suspected, or at least not banned. Hmm.
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Post by Rychu725 on Aug 7, 2013 0:02:43 GMT -5
I do agree with most of your points soulred12. But most of the scenarios involving Landorus are...The opponent kills one of your Pokemon, you bring in Landorus (assuming it is a good counter, ex. Terrakion). The opponent will either A. Sack his Terrakion to get some good damage on ya. Or B. Switch into a check. If you were predicting A, you would go for an attack. If you think B, you go for the Rock Polish. You have a chance to die either way. Don't forget too, priority is a thing as well. Mamoswine, Cloyster, and Scizor are good examples of guys that can come in and revenge kill Lando. I do agree that once it has set up a Rock Polish, and if you don't have priority, it will put holes in teams. But the last thing I wanted to tell you was, you really only saw the Special set before it went Uber...So I think Chansey and Blissey could wall him...  thank you |
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zerocielX
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Post by zerocielX on Aug 7, 2013 0:33:33 GMT -5
I do agree with most of your points soulred12. But most of the scenarios involving Landorus are...The opponent kills one of your Pokemon, you bring in Landorus (assuming it is a good counter, ex. Terrakion). The opponent will either A. Sack his Terrakion to get some good damage on ya. Or B. Switch into a check. If you were predicting A, you would go for an attack. If you think B, you go for the Rock Polish. You have a chance to die either way. Don't forget too, priority is a thing as well. Mamoswine, Cloyster, and Scizor are good examples of guys that can come in and revenge kill Lando. I do agree that once it has set up a Rock Polish, and if you don't have priority, it will put holes in teams. But the last thing I wanted to tell you was, you really only saw the Special set before it went Uber...So I think Chansey and Blissey could wall him... thank you Those examples you mentioned are all checks not counters. Counters are something that can switch in directly, take a few hits, and then proceed to threaten the Pokemon out. And Blissey as a counter is out of the question. The poor thing gets 2HKO'd by Focus Blast. Chansey can take a hit, sure, but the worst it can do back is either Toxic it or Seismic Toss. In either case, Lando really isn't pressured to switch out. Thanks to soulred12, now I know why he banned in the first place, so my previous rants are kind of invalid XD |
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Post by Rychu725 on Aug 7, 2013 0:39:55 GMT -5
That is why Zero, I said WALL, not counter. I listed a few counters on my post, Scizor, Cloyster, Mamo. Ok, maybe Cloyster can't really switch in to this thing...But I can come in and revenge kill it. I agree he doesn't have many hard counters, but I feel he did have several applicable revenge killers.
Maybe I am so adamant I don't think he should go to Ubers is cuz I didn't use Lando all that often...But I have seen many battlers using it so I feel I can still make a case.
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Steelgrassify
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If there's one thing I don't forgive, it's bad grammar
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Post by Steelgrassify on Aug 10, 2013 20:46:05 GMT -5
I feel that Landorus-I is really more of the threat that you got to compensate for in OU, but not something that you're going to even need to bump up to Ubers.
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Post by soulred12 on Aug 21, 2013 15:51:46 GMT -5
Hold on, what? None of those come close to countering Lando. First, Scizor is not even a check. Even specially defensive Scizor is cleanly 2HKOd by Special Lando's Earth Power, and if it's an offensive Scizor, forget it--It can't even take one unless there's some HP investment, and even then it still dies after stealth rock. Specially defensive Scizor is also 2HKOd by physical Lando's +0 Earthquake. On the flip side, Choice Band Scizor's bullet punch is only a 2HKO, and specially bulky Scizor's bullet punch is barely even a guaranteed 3HKO.
As for Cloyster, Earthquake or Stone Edge from the physical set are both 2HKOs at +0 (stone edge OHKOs 50% of the time after stealth rocks), and even friggin psychic is an OHKO from Special Lando. So it can't even revenge kill the special set (or the physical set after stealth rocks).
Finally, I will concede that Mamoswine does fine against physical Lando thanks to that priority Ice Shard (unless the Lando happens to run superpower, which was admittedly somewhat uncommon but was becoming more common, and uses it on the switch), but it can't take even one earth power or focus blast from special Lando.
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Although, I think the only Pokemon that really hard counter either Lando-I set would be Cresselia (outside of Sandstorm, of course) Immune to its main STAB, and with her incredible defenses, she can take U-Turns, Stone-Edges, HP Ice, and any other coverage move Lando may run. But of course, since she is sitting down in BL2, and Lando is almost always in the sand, that really limited her usage.
thank you 
