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Post by Stormy Dog Show on Sept 1, 2013 10:32:25 GMT -5
Gen 4 has to be the most 'shitted on' generation by the Pokemon community (more specifically, by Gen 2 and 3 fanboys) . It is by no means overrated Zero is in fact correct. I personally loved the region, the Pokemon, and the plot. The region had a very colorful and big environment. The Pokemon looked awesome, especially the starters. The crime organization was even more threatening than the others. So whats their plan? To take over the world, thevery, bigger land or sea? These guys don't screw around. They want to destroy the world and recreate it WITH THE CREATORS! Tell me thats not threatening. Note: Animalguy001 sorta put words in my mouth, but I always had the same opinion.
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Steelgrassify
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Post by Steelgrassify on Sept 1, 2013 11:00:52 GMT -5
I do think Sinnoh is a bit underrated. The games were amazing for the DS at the time and you actually got sprites that moved and sweet cutscenes as well as a team that wanted something a bit different that the other evil teams wanted in previous games. Sinnoh added a lot of things that I think the community has taken for granted
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Post by Rychu725 on Sept 1, 2013 16:37:59 GMT -5
I agree with both of you...I think it was Sinnoh that made the competitive battling scene so popular...Plus, we all know hands down that Cynthia is the best Champion there is.
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TheHunterDag
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Post by TheHunterDag on Sept 1, 2013 21:14:04 GMT -5
Starters: Monkey Blaziken... turtle with a tree (pretty much a crappy Venesaur)... a boring penguin (there's nothing special about Empoleon)
Region: a bunch of stuff that sounds way cooler on paper, if that. The fact that I have to struggle to remember locations in Sinnoh means that a lot of the locations were unmemorable (and I put more hours into Pearl than any other Pokemon game). A lot of it just seemed cooler because the graphics were improved drastically over the last game. Sandwiched between Unova and Hoenn (which I still hold was a pretty great region, see my post on the other thread), Sinnoh isn't that impressive at all.
Story: Absolute garbage. First of all, winning in the "Who's more evil?" contest doesn't make Team Galactic the winners of the "Who has a better plot?" contest. The way the story progresses is pretty dumb. You go about you're adventure and watch the bad guys collect the three plot coupons (items that serve the sole purpose of advancing the plot). For whatever reason, they succeed every time, despite the fact that you beat up one of their guys on each occasion. Then blah, blah, blah, Palkia and Dialga made the world or something (in Platinum: "Oh, by the way, Giratina is important too...... DISTORTION WORLD BECAUSE IT LOOKS COOL!). Big deal! Arceus is far more important, yet he's never even mentioned. (I wouldn't have known that he existed if it weren't for the internet). They skipped over a potentially better plot point for the sake of having Arceus as DLC (essentially)! So, no. Gen IV's plot was not good. (See my argument on the last thread as to why Gen III's plot was way better, but I'll add this). Gen III's plot had something that really helped the plot develop immensely. The antagonists had a foil. The team you weren't fighting was a direct contrast to the team that you were, which further flushed out how bad the team you're fighting was. Their plan was evil enough, but them having a direct contrast made it seem even worse. The use of foils is almost always a good thing in storywriting of any sort, because it gives the writer the ability to say more about the person (or in this case, group) that they're foiling without actually saying it. Gen IV just had plot coupons and story that ultimately half-assed it self and settled on the bad guys just being evil.
Either way, the story is usually the least important part of a Pokemon game. (Gen I and II were very good despite the fact that they had little to no story).
And finally...
The Pokemon: Sinnoh had a pretty boring set of Pokemon. With all seriousness, with the exception of a few guys, all of the cool Pokemon in Sinnoh were either legendaries or extra evolutions of preexisting guys. Going through my mental list of Gen IV guys I particularly liked, I realized that almost all of them are on the bottom of the Pokedex (which is the new evolutions and legends).
So, do I think Gen IV is underrated? HECK NO! Overrated. Very overrated. All it really brought to the table is the battle mechanics that we know and love today.
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Steelgrassify
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Post by Steelgrassify on Sept 1, 2013 21:41:15 GMT -5
Nice rant Dag, I can kind of agree there too partially. In a sense gen 4 was a lot like Halo 4. Both games were made a bit different from previous versions and thus got a lot of hate. Overall you could say that gen 4 was a pokemon 3.5 or a beta to the next games. Sinnoh didn't do a lot as far as the plot but we get great people like Cynthia and game mechanics. Now I'm guessing there's going to be a "Unova is Underrated/Overrated" thread coming soon?
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zerocielX
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Post by zerocielX on Sept 1, 2013 22:00:53 GMT -5
I hope not. This needs to die off now.
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Post by Rychu725 on Sept 1, 2013 22:32:10 GMT -5
TheHunterDag: I admit the starter were pretty bad...Although I love Turtwig and Torterra, I hate everyone else as far as the starters go. But there were so many cool Pokemon, way more than Gen 3 had I'd say. Gen 4 List: Lucario, Palkia, Garchomp, Roserade, Weavile, Luxray, the ENTIRE Rotom family, Magmortar (I think), Dialga, Shamin, Rampardos, Hippowdon, Heatran, Toxicroak, Giratina, Gallade, etc. Gen 3 List: Absol, Breloom, Salamence, Sceptile, Metagross, Milotic, Aggron, Swampert, Manectric, Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Jirachi. That was reading from my top 100 list. Yes, I do agree that Gen 4 did several evolutions of previous Pokemon, but they did a pretty good job. Roserade, Magmortar, and Weavile are only a few examples of some badass evolutions they created in Gen 4. The plot in Gen 4 was somewhat weird I'd say, but Cyrus, other than Giovanni, was the coolest villian in Pokemon (villian not rival). Lastly, I can really only think of four epic legendaries from Gen 3, the three game cover Pokemon and Jirachi. Yes, the Lake Trio do look pretty derpy, but Palkia, Dialga, Shaymin, Giratina, Darkrai, the Rotoms, they are all so cool!!!
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TheHunterDag
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Post by TheHunterDag on Sept 2, 2013 8:31:43 GMT -5
See, your Gen IV list included only 4 non-legends or non extra evolutions. I didn't count Lucario because almost EVERYONE likes him, and Garchomp is the obligatory cool dragon of the region.
Gen III also had ALTARIA, the overlooked Sableye and Mawile, Ludicolo, Sharpedo, Flygon, Armaldo, Cradily, Gardevoir, Solrock and Lunatone, Crawdaunt, and the very neat guys Castform and Shedinja.
Gen IV had legend of overload. Gen III just had cool guys in the region. (And what about the Regis, Latios and Latias, and Deoxys?!)
I have to disagree with whole Cyrus being cool (but that's more a matter of taste). But him being cool doesn't justify the plot he's in being bad and poorly written.
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zerocielX
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Post by zerocielX on Sept 2, 2013 9:48:37 GMT -5
Dag, your rants prove exactly what I was talking about in the quote above.
The plot for D/P/Pt (Platinum in particular)is really not as bad as you make it out to be, in fact I found it much more enjoyable than the R/S/E storyline of two feuding gangs trying to reach their simplistic goals. You also had a much more legitimate rival than the one you had in R/S/E (May/Brendan and Wally, really?) You may say that this irrelevant to the overall plot of the game, but it's pretty important.
Since this was a Pokemon game, I'm not going the dissect the actual plot in the same way you did. But looking at the evil teams from both gens, Team Aqua/Magma were a fail compared to Team Rocket before it, and of course to Team Galactic. They were literally a group of hooligans looking to cause trouble across the region, very much like, say, a local gang. Team Galactic, on the other hand was much organized with not one, but three separate commanders (four in Platinum) which issued the orders of their psychopathic leader, and posed a much more veritable threat to, not only the region, but for the entire planet.
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TheHunterDag
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Post by TheHunterDag on Sept 2, 2013 13:52:55 GMT -5
I still think Team Galactic is just a more ambitious version of the generic "I'm gonna destroy the world!" villain trope. Team Aqua/Magma on the other hand were convinced they were doing right in some way and the plot involved the philosophy of why you shouldn't upset the balance of nature. Ultimately, it achieved more with less. That's why I think it was good.
Personally, I didn't mind the role of your rival in Gen III. I mean, it was more just a character to help you gauge your progress (not very well, but whatev).
Either way, don't think I'm shitting on Gen IV. I just don't think it holds up as well when compared to the rest of the series.
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Post by Rychu725 on Sept 2, 2013 14:44:29 GMT -5
I guess I can tell you that the villians in Gen 3 were much more realistic than Gen 4, not that really matters though. Ok I actually agree with most of the Pokemon TheHunterDag listed, but I mean Castform? Soulrock and Lunatone? Even the Regis are just...yuck! The plot isn't really that bad...Platinum is arguably the best Pokemon game OF ALL TIME!! (According to experience PokePlayers)
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Post by Stormy Dog Show on Sept 2, 2013 16:53:21 GMT -5
TheHunterDag You think Empoleon is boring? Then you can't tell me you didn't complain about some of the Pokemon in gen 1 (note: I love gen 1). Crabby- just a crab Rattatta- just a rat Pidgey- just a bird Seal- just a SEAL! And not just in gen 1. Lets face it, every generation had at least 1 Pokemon that wasn't unique.
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Post by Rychu725 on Sept 2, 2013 19:26:39 GMT -5
Like Spencer said...
Swellow: A bird Solrock: a rock Torchic: A chick Wailord: a whale Etc.
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TheHunterDag
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Post by TheHunterDag on Sept 2, 2013 19:38:28 GMT -5
Gen I was more focused on realism (to an extent) with the Pokemon. It's pretty obvious that they shift from that more and more each gen.
Responding to a few things at once here. Castform WAS pretty cool. Changing forms based on the weather is a neat concept. Solrock and Lunatone were cool because celestial bodies are an interesting place for inspiration. Those two were almost ominous and I personally thought it was really cool. And I really don't think you can call Torchic boring for being based off an animal, since most Pokemon are in some way. Either way, he evolves into Blaziken who most people agree is pretty BA (not really me, but it's a reasonable argument).
There's a reason why Wailord and Swellow weren't on my list...
Finally, in response to Platinum being arguably the best, yes. Very arguably. I think that title goes to either HG/SS or Black and White 2 (maybe X and Y, we'll see).
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Post by Aquablast on Sept 2, 2013 20:06:12 GMT -5
All Pokemon are based upon animals, although Seel and Pidove have very unoriginal names.
*Let's get back on topic instead of ranting at random Pokemon's originality.*
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