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Post by soulred12 on Jun 9, 2014 16:09:29 GMT -5
Weaknesses.Now let's be honest here, scpetile has too many damn weakness, and the thing that he is meant to counter all have ice move. Example water types and electric types, 8/10 electric types carry HPice as coverage and if someone sees a scpetile on someone's team that just makes bait to get forced out to get icebeam or HPiced. You bring your water type predict the switch,use an ice move done,dead lizzard. Or the many dragon scarfers or many fairy types( especially stuff like klefki and Togekiss) This all could still change as we'all don't know its stats yet. but We all know scpetile's weaknesses is going to cripple it from being ou. It's not as if he could take an ice move...or really any move before this: 252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Sceptile: 279-328 (98.9 - 116.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO 252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Sceptile: 265-315 (93.9 - 111.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO So the new resistances matter WAY more than the new weaknesses. Now it can last longer against some fire moves (even Scarf Chandelure's fire blast...and if it goes up from base 120 to base 145 speed, it will even outspeed Scarf Chandelure as well as +1 Jolly Dragonite!). Admittedly most of the new resistances just change 2x resistances it already had into 4x, but that's still helpful in letting it actually tank resisted moves rather than still getting mauled by them. Also, lots of things in pokemon take prediction. And you can just pivot out to MSceptile (e.g., with a slow volt switch/u-turn), rather than switching directly, or just wait to mega evolve until Mamo is dealt with. Its coverage moves not always covering.We all know sceptile has some great coverage moves and halve of the time people like to make sceptile a sweeper cause of its many coverage moves, as seen in ru. But with its coverage moves it's not always covering stuff. Let's speculate that the most used Msceptile set will be:Sdance-Dclaw-Lblade and Equake. Now these moves do cover allot of pokes but can never be a true sweeper as it requires to clan up some other defensive threats first like Togekiss and skarmory especially if you're using the set I listed above. ''Now'' you say with a posed look ''we can just change Equake for Stoneedge to take care of bulky fliers'' but that leaves you open to many other steal types like mawhile and Bisharp who can take the free turn that you require to switch to boost up and wreck shit with sucker punch and playrough. So after all this we can see that sceptile can't work alone it really NEEDS help from teammates, especially if you're looking to sweep. His other sets like Sub seed won't be used any more cause its many new weaknesses, I think. Mega Sceptile will probably be a hit-and-run revenge killer, and run mixed with mainly special attacks, because Lightningrod increases Special Attack, his special attack is higher than his physical attack to begin with, and he doesn't really have time to sit there and boost with SD. He will probably run sets like Leaf Storm/HP Fire/Dragon Pulse/Earthquake. Or he could still run the sub-seeding set, since weaknesses don't really matter when the idea is to stay behind a substitute. As I mentioned, priority ice shard was already a problem for him; the dragon typing won't be making it one all of the sudden.
Also, the fact that it needs help from teammates won't necessarily keep it from being OU. Look at Mega Pinsir, who can't get through Skarmory or Physically Defensive Zapdos, or Mega Manectric, who can't get past Blissey, Clefable, or Quagsire. In addition, lightningrod itself will be a great boon to any team, because it lets the opponent worry about spamming choiced volt switch. One wrong prediction using volt switch while MSceptile is still around, and the opponent has a free turn and free +1.
I know I'm kind of being a MSceptile apologist here, but I have to since I was disappointed by Mega Swampert =/
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Steelgrassify
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Post by Steelgrassify on Jun 9, 2014 17:07:57 GMT -5
Now if you look at Mega Sceptile alone, it's weakness do make it seem like quite the sad Pokemon, but if we think of Sceptile we think of a fast, hard-hitting Pokemon that can take advantage of some helpful items. Here's what I'd like to point out however:
WEAKNESSES: 4x Ice 2x Dragon 2x Fairy 2x Poison 2x Bug 2x Flying
Now what type resists all of those types? Why of course, it's Steel to the rescue! Mega-Sceptile synergies so well with them that steel is immune to poison, and resists the rest of them. So have Sceptile lead out and do some quick damage, then switch to something like an Aegislash, or other Steel type to tank a hit. Now I'll reaffirm this point later when we see some actual data on moves and stats, but just by looking at the weaknesses as long as you have a steel type you're pretty much set. (Just think how well this thing would do in inverse battles 0.0)
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zerocielX
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Post by zerocielX on Jun 9, 2014 17:46:21 GMT -5
While we are theorymoning here, let's bring up Mega Swampert. It's impossible to say how it will work out without looking at base stats, but I'm gonna go on a limb here and say that he is gonna be the SS sweeper we have always wanted. He will obviously get a huge boost in attack (or even special attack) and some added bulk. And even if he doesn't get an increase in speed, Base 60 is good enough. With max investment and an Adamant nature it hits 438 under the rain. That is fast enough to outspeed the whole unboosted meta.
Of course, we won't know until we see some base stats.
(I still think Mold Breaker would have been a better ability for it. Setting up Stealth Rock on Espeon sounds pretty cool lol)
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Skarm
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Posts: 481
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Post by Skarm on Jun 9, 2014 18:12:53 GMT -5
Weaknesses.Now let's be honest here, scpetile has too many damn weakness, and the thing that he is meant to counter all have ice move. Example water types and electric types, 8/10 electric types carry HPice as coverage and if someone sees a scpetile on someone's team that just makes bait to get forced out to get icebeam or HPiced. You bring your water type predict the switch,use an ice move done,dead lizzard. Or the many dragon scarfers or many fairy types( especially stuff like klefki and Togekiss) This all could still change as we'all don't know its stats yet. but We all know scpetile's weaknesses is going to cripple it from being ou. It's not as if he could take an ice move...or really any move before this: 252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Sceptile: 279-328 (98.9 - 116.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO 252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Sceptile: 265-315 (93.9 - 111.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO So the new resistances matter WAY more than the new weaknesses. Now it can last longer against some fire moves (even Scarf Chandelure's fire blast...and if it goes up from base 120 to base 145 speed, it will even outspeed Scarf Chandelure as well as +1 Jolly Dragonite!). Admittedly most of the new resistances just change 2x resistances it already had into 4x, but that's still helpful in letting it actually tank resisted moves rather than still getting mauled by them. Also, lots of things in pokemon take prediction. And you can just pivot out to MSceptile (e.g., with a slow volt switch/u-turn), rather than switching directly, or just wait to mega evolve until Mamo is dealt with. Its coverage moves not always covering.We all know sceptile has some great coverage moves and halve of the time people like to make sceptile a sweeper cause of its many coverage moves, as seen in ru. But with its coverage moves it's not always covering stuff. Let's speculate that the most used Msceptile set will be:Sdance-Dclaw-Lblade and Equake. Now these moves do cover allot of pokes but can never be a true sweeper as it requires to clan up some other defensive threats first like Togekiss and skarmory especially if you're using the set I listed above. ''Now'' you say with a posed look ''we can just change Equake for Stoneedge to take care of bulky fliers'' but that leaves you open to many other steal types like mawhile and Bisharp who can take the free turn that you require to switch to boost up and wreck shit with sucker punch and playrough. So after all this we can see that sceptile can't work alone it really NEEDS help from teammates, especially if you're looking to sweep. His other sets like Sub seed won't be used any more cause its many new weaknesses, I think. Mega Sceptile will probably be a hit-and-run revenge killer, and run mixed with mainly special attacks, because Lightningrod increases Special Attack, his special attack is higher than his physical attack to begin with, and he doesn't really have time to sit there and boost with SD. He will probably run sets like Leaf Storm/HP Fire/Dragon Pulse/Earthquake. Or he could still run the sub-seeding set, since weaknesses don't really matter when the idea is to stay behind a substitute. As I mentioned, priority ice shard was already a problem for him; the dragon typing won't be making it one all of the sudden.
Also, the fact that it needs help from teammates won't necessarily keep it from being OU. Look at Mega Pinsir, who can't get through Skarmory or Physically Defensive Zapdos, or Mega Manectric, who can't get past Blissey, Clefable, or Quagsire. In addition, lightningrod itself will be a great boon to any team, because it lets the opponent worry about spamming choiced volt switch. One wrong prediction using volt switch while MSceptile is still around, and the opponent has a free turn and free +1.
I know I'm kind of being a MSceptile apologist here, but I have to since I was disappointed by Mega Swampert =/ I did say mega sceptile will be a clean up sweeper which is pretty much a revenge killer. Although a the moment I couldn't remember the specific term And let's be honest We good players OFC won't run shit life Sdance but we know in the beginning even youtubers will be trying it or funzies thus making less good players(which allot run around especially in the beginning of the meta) use the SDANCE set, which is why I aid that in the beginning of the meta most people will be using Sdance. The new weaknesses does matter if you want to be in camp ''sceptile for OU'' Ou is like homeland of HPices, dragon moves and now thanks 6th gen ''Brave bird for mother russia!'' And weaknesses does matter when under a sub f your sub constantly gets broken you can't work efficiently as it will end up either you constantly trying to keep your sub up, switching out or losing more health due to sub than you are actually gaining with seeds. Electric types are honestly going to be Sceptile's downfall Cause we all know its going to be the main gimmick to take electric hits everyone will be looking forward to it thus easily predicting it, OFC you can use this fact to over predict but in the end its playing with fire, get it right you win, get it wrong you get burnt and sent to the hospital. stuff like pinsir is ou cause of the simple fact it can do great damage without always needing boosts, just like mawhile. Btw I've also seen some people run Sedge on Sdance pinsir just for zapdos, I had to learn that the hard way. manetric works fine as it can voltswitch and still getting away with chip damage. (FYI, as a previous intense 5fth gen ru player I can tell you people are using manetric a bit differently nowadays, back in the day it used to run HPgrass especially for peasants like quagsire, but he, times has changed.) O and we must also realize this all on paper, we can not really count in luck, team building capabilities and human skill in our speculations as the sceptile itself, and other new stuff that comes with it are not yet released, the human mind makes even the worst of weapons the best, it;s not the strength of the weapon that makes it good, its how you use it. I am contradicting myself allot I keep saying sceptile is good or it sucks,allot.lel. Or saying not to count skill and predictions, but yet I do.
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Skarm
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Post by Skarm on Jun 9, 2014 18:14:45 GMT -5
While we are theorymoning here, let's bring up Mega Swampert. It's impossible to say how it will work out without looking at base stats, but I'm gonna go on a limb here and say that he is gonna be the SS sweeper we have always wanted. He will obviously get a huge boost in attack (or even special attack) and some added bulk. And even if he doesn't get an increase in speed, Base 60 is good enough. With max investment and an Adamant nature it hits 438 under the rain. That is fast enough to outspeed the whole unboosted meta. Of course, we won't know until we see some base stats. (I still think Mold Breaker would have been a better ability for it. Setting up Stealth Rock on Espeon sounds pretty cool lol) He should of gotten and ability like ''do you even lift bro?'' For everytime he gets status his attack and defense increase +1 XD
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Skarm
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Post by Skarm on Jun 9, 2014 18:20:25 GMT -5
Now if you look at Mega Sceptile alone, it's weakness do make it seem like quite the sad Pokemon, but if we think of Sceptile we think of a fast, hard-hitting Pokemon that can take advantage of some helpful items. Here's what I'd like to point out however: WEAKNESSES: 4x Ice 2x Dragon 2x Fairy 2x Poison 2x Bug 2x Flying Now what type resists all of those types? Why of course, it's Steel to the rescue! Mega-Sceptile synergies so well with them that steel is immune to poison, and resists the rest of them. So have Sceptile lead out and do some quick damage, then switch to something like an Aegislash, or other Steel type to tank a hit. Now I'll reaffirm this point later when we see some actual data on moves and stats, but just by looking at the weaknesses as long as you have a steel type you're pretty much set. (Just think how well this thing would do in inverse battles 0.0) Ye We can't really act without actual data. But pokemon is a funny game is you just focus on weaknesses, yo'll still lose as many pokemon have dual typing that cover the other typing's counter. Also they should get about and release a normal ghost type, I want my normal ghost! make it like Mega snorlax, it died of terminal 7 cause he ate too much thus achieving ghost normal state.
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zerocielX
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Post by zerocielX on Jun 9, 2014 18:58:29 GMT -5
"BRAVE BIRD FOR MOTHER RUSSIA" - Skarm 2014
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Skarm
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Post by Skarm on Jun 9, 2014 19:14:58 GMT -5
"BRAVE BIRD FOR MOTHER RUSSIA" - Skarm 2014 ye, I called my talon flame on showdown ''ForMotherRussia!''
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Post by soulred12 on Jun 9, 2014 21:50:54 GMT -5
The new weaknesses does matter if you want to be in camp ''sceptile for OU'' Ou is like homeland of HPices, dragon moves and now thanks 6th gen ''Brave bird for mother russia!'' The weaknesses don't matter because they don't change anything. Sceptile already couldn't take the most common ice and dragon moves. Being 4x weak to them just means the HP bar drains to 0HP faster, it doesn't mean that now he now dies to things he wouldn't have died to before. Admittedly, a few pokemon's HP Ices wouldn't kill before but will with the dragon typing, but we're really only talking about Thundurus and Manectric there, and even then you wouldn't really bring Sceptile in against either of them anyway. Overall all he's really getting, in other words the only things that are changing for him, from the type change is some resistances to help him take water and grass moves better (and of course electric moves). And all that goes double for his substitutes, which of course die 4x faster than he would since they only have 1/4 the HP. At least now maybe water and grass moves won't break the subs. Electric types are honestly going to be Sceptile's downfall Cause we all know its going to be the main gimmick to take electric hits everyone will be looking forward to it thus easily predicting it, OFC you can use this fact to over predict but in the end its playing with fire, get it right you win, get it wrong you get burnt and sent to the hospital. It's the same deal with Rotom predicting Manectric to come in (before it's mega-evolved) and going Hydro Pump instead of Volt Switch. Except Sceptile 4x resists Hydro Pump. You can also liken Sceptile to Mega Lucario. Obviously it's not as insanely powerful as Mega Luke, so Mega Sceptile will never be uber lol, but my point is that despite Mega Luke's power, it has really common weaknesses and paper thin defenses (about as bad as normal Sceptile's, incidentally), so it can't really switch into anything. At least Mega Sceptile can't get paralyzed except by the rare Glare (he'll be immune to thunder wave and stun spore).
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Skarm
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Post by Skarm on Jun 9, 2014 22:26:52 GMT -5
The new weaknesses does matter if you want to be in camp ''sceptile for OU'' Ou is like homeland of HPices, dragon moves and now thanks 6th gen ''Brave bird for mother russia!'' The weaknesses don't matter because they don't change anything. Sceptile already couldn't take the most common ice and dragon moves. Being 4x weak to them just means the HP bar drains to 0HP faster, it doesn't mean that now he now dies to things he wouldn't have died to before. Admittedly, a few pokemon's HP Ices wouldn't kill before but will with the dragon typing, but we're really only talking about Thundurus and Manectric there, and even then you wouldn't really bring Sceptile in against either of them anyway. Overall all he's really getting, in other words the only things that are changing for him, from the type change is some resistances to help him take water and grass moves better (and of course electric moves). And all that goes double for his substitutes, which of course die 4x faster than he would since they only have 1/4 the HP. At least now maybe water and grass moves won't break the subs. Electric types are honestly going to be Sceptile's downfall Cause we all know its going to be the main gimmick to take electric hits everyone will be looking forward to it thus easily predicting it, OFC you can use this fact to over predict but in the end its playing with fire, get it right you win, get it wrong you get burnt and sent to the hospital. It's the same deal with Rotom predicting Manectric to come in (before it's mega-evolved) and going Hydro Pump instead of Volt Switch. Except Sceptile 4x resists Hydro Pump. You can also liken Sceptile to Mega Lucario. Obviously it's not as insanely powerful as Mega Luke, so Mega Sceptile will never be uber lol, but my point is that despite Mega Luke's power, it has really common weaknesses and paper thin defenses (about as bad as normal Sceptile's, incidentally), so it can't really switch into anything. At least Mega Sceptile can't get paralyzed except by the rare Glare (he'll be immune to thunder wave and stun spore). Well, I'm not formulating my sentences well. But I'll try again, sub worked beroe cause it was in a lower tier with les threats. When it get's a mega it will mostly go to higher tiers thus more threats thus making sub seeding harder. O and by predicting the switch i don't mean staying in. dat is silly i mean predicting the switch and switching into another counter or something that can kill sceptile, catch my drift?
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