xeno
Ace Trainer
Posts: 110
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Post by xeno on Dec 11, 2013 22:39:11 GMT -5
Why not outplay M-Kangaskhan before he sets up? Trainer Red sends out M-Kangaskhan! M-Kangaskhan uses PuP! Trainer Blue sends out Sableye! PuP doesn't affect Sableye! Sableye's Prankster: Sableye uses Will-O-Wisp! M-Kangaskhan is burned! M-Kangaskhan is hurt by its burn! GG M-Kangaskhan. I still am not convinced that it is too difficult to outplay a M-Kangaskhan. He completely loses viability outside of his offensive movesets, and they are SO incredibly predictable. Predictability then transfers victory/defeat over to the skill of the Trainer. You can't ban a Pokemon because of a good Trainer.
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Post by Corporal Levi on Dec 11, 2013 22:49:09 GMT -5
The issue with this is that the Mega Kangaskhan user can simply switch out as well. This applies to any Pokemon, of course, but not very many other Pokemon have a grand total of one reliable switch-in. Once Sableye is down, which shouldn't be particularly difficult considering its subpar stats, Kangaskhan has free reign over the outcome of the match. Keep in mind that if the Kangaskhan user sees Sableye in team preview, perhaps Kangaskhan won't mega-evolve immediately, and can take advantage of Scrappy to deal some serious damage to Sableye with Return before switching out to one of very many Pokemon that can promptly force Sableye out. In addition, Sableye has to use Recover immediately after being hit by the Scrappy Return because if it goes for Will-o-Wisp and the Kangaskhan user switches, then Sableye will no longer be healthy enough to stop Kangaskhan again. If the game draws out long enough, either Kangaskhan will land an untimely crit or it will simply PP stall Recover out, since Return has more PP than Recover. In other words, a moderately well-played Kangaskhan simply does not lose.
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zerocielX
Moderator
kawaii desu (◕‿◕✿)
Posts: 1,441
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Post by zerocielX on Dec 11, 2013 22:51:46 GMT -5
Why not outplay M-Kangaskhan before he sets up? Trainer Red sends out M-Kangaskhan! M-Kangaskhan uses PuP! Trainer Blue sends out Sableye! PuP doesn't affect Sableye! Sableye's Prankster: Sableye uses Will-O-Wisp! M-Kangaskhan is burned! M-Kangaskhan is hurt by its burn! GG M-Kangaskhan. I still am not convinced that it is too difficult to outplay a M-Kangaskhan. He completely loses viability outside of his offensive movesets, and they are SO incredibly predictable. Predictability then transfers victory/defeat over to the skill of the Trainer. You can't ban a Pokemon because of a good Trainer. But no one keeps a physically based sweeper to take a ridiculously obvious Will-o-Wisp. Trainer Red can switch out to Talonflame (which is usually paired up with M-Kanga for such occasions) avoid the incoming W-o-W, and set up a Swords Dance as the Sableye switches out, or just fire off a Brave Bird. EDIT: Got ninja'd
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xeno
Ace Trainer
Posts: 110
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Post by xeno on Dec 11, 2013 22:52:35 GMT -5
Fair enough.
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Post by Rychu725 on Dec 12, 2013 1:12:45 GMT -5
I don't think he should be banned...
*she
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Wolf Prince
Administrator
It's a sad and cruel world after all.
Posts: 1,235
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Post by Wolf Prince on Dec 12, 2013 15:01:22 GMT -5
I don't think he should be banned... *she I didn't think so either because while reading through smogon's discussion it kept mentioning only ones that can ressist/take hits to it instead of revenge killing it. However i did a little calculations with those pokemon which could easily revenge kill it or that might take it's priority hit and OHKO it back but it's bulk is just too much to OHKO revenge. As shown above not even Darmanitan can OHKO with super power, and it gets OHKO'd with sucker punch, a scarfed Terrakion can't OHKO it unless it has suffered from spikes/good amount of hazzards or banded. Not many things counter it, not many things revenge kill it, it's got powerful priority. It's sort of an extreeme Arceus!
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Post by blazape on Dec 12, 2013 21:35:41 GMT -5
As someone who uses kangaskhan on showdown for a while I really don't think it is just the best thing out there. There are several things that can kill it like talenfalme even regular gangar and ferrothorn. I really think you guys need to remember that ANY stall ghost type can kill this thing with no effert and so can anything that has a priority move. If this thing could choose two different moves each turn then it would be ubers but it can't.
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Wolf Prince
Administrator
It's a sad and cruel world after all.
Posts: 1,235
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Post by Wolf Prince on Dec 12, 2013 21:47:39 GMT -5
Yeah it's not like Mega Kangaskhan can live bullet punch from scizor or close combat from Terrakion. But it can ._.
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Post by Corporal Levi on Dec 12, 2013 22:25:26 GMT -5
Talonflame takes 107.7 - 127.1% from Return, and deals 66.7 - 78.6% with banded Adamant Brave Bird. Ferrothorn will not enjoy Drain Punch or Subpunch. Defensive Ghost types are simply not very strong in the current metagame outside of Jellicent, and they all fall to Crunch regardless (except Dusclops, who has no reliable recovery, no leftovers, and is set-up bait against a huge portion of the metagame). Gengar cannot safely switch in on a Crunch or Scrappy Return, so it is limited to revenge-killing; even then, it has to rely on the inaccurate Focus Blast, and only the Life Orb variant is able to OHKO Kangaskhan. If Kangaskhan gets to +1 through Scrappy Power-up Punch, the second hit of Sucker Punch when Kangaskhan mega-evolves will deal 73.2 - 87%, KOing Gengar after Stealth Rock and Substitute. If Gengar does not use Substitute, it will be straight-up KOed by Sucker Punch. The only way Gengar has a reasonable chance of winning is if it uses Disable on Kangaskhan's Sucker Punch; of course, the Kangaskhan could simply predict Disable and use Crunch, or switch out to a teammate with a more positive match-up against an entirely vulnerable Gengar. Kangaskhan isn't taking a Close Combat from Terrakion. The thing is, Terrakion can't directly switch into Kangaskhan because a combination of Power Up Punch and Sucker Punch will usually take out Terrakion after one layer of Spikes. Terrakion is able to revenge-kill Kangaskhan, but it's forced into using a fighting-type move for fear of taking an Earthquake, making it easily played around with the rest of Kangaskhan's team.
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Post by soulred12 on Dec 30, 2013 13:48:02 GMT -5
I don't think anyone's mentioned yet the seismic toss set, which 2HKOs EVERYTHING with less than base 100 HP because seismic toss's damage isn't cut in half when the baby does it.
Also all ghosts but Sableye are pretty much obliterated by Parental Bond Crunch on the switch in. Sableye is really the only answer there IS to M-Kanga. I guess Cofag trolls with mummy, so Cofag could work, but he pretty much has to sack himself just to burn M-Kanga. Also, if it's a substitute variant, forget about it. All the other bulky but slow ghosts are 2HKOd by unboosted crunch. Gengar is the only ghost to outspeed M-Kanga but he's vulnerable to sucker punch since he rarely carries will-o-wisp and it will hit through substitute. Gengar could possibly disable the sucker punch with some prediction, but there is also crunch, and Gengar can't OHKO M-Kanga with focus blast thanks to base 100 special defense.
I kind of wish I was playing Gen 6 competitively before the ban though, I would have really wanted to troll by tricking a ring target onto the opponent's ghost and then sweeping with M-Kanga :3
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Post by Aquablast on Dec 30, 2013 15:19:59 GMT -5
Since Mega Kangaskhan is now ban by Smogon, I am going to close this thread.
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MangaGold
Elite Trainer
A well thought out stratagey can overcome brute force any time
Posts: 497
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Post by MangaGold on Dec 31, 2013 20:40:52 GMT -5
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Post by Aquablast on Dec 31, 2013 20:47:42 GMT -5
I can't believe I did this again. :@
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